"Businesses may come and go, but religion will last forever, for in no other endeavor does the consumer blame himself for product failure. "




November 24th, 2006

Atheism vs Agnosticism

Where god resides, in the mind

Just as there are different levels of belief, there are also different levels of disbelief. For believers, there are the evangelists who take almost everything in the book of genesis literally -The type who raise their hands up in the air, scream like lunatics then faint during sermons; There are also the everyday normal people whom I don’t want to offend here too much since I know too many of them. For non-believers, there are the hardcore atheists and there are also agnostics whom I sometimes lovingly call weaker atheists

Agnosticism

A lot of people claim to be agnostic but most are actually just not very religious theists. (cough, hazel , cough, poser, cough, agnostic wannabee) There’s your special mention:)


There are many flavors of agnosticism but generally agnosticism is non-comittance to either atheism or theism. They will not outright say that there is a god they also will not say that there is no god. Some might say that they’re being safe some may say that they’re being indecisive. Either way most agnostics are usually pretty smart people and they have my respect as objective thinkers


Agnosticism is a logically and scientifically sound position. 1.) Lack of evidence for the existence of an entity is not evidence against its existence. Analogously 2.) lack of evidence against the non-existence of an entity is not proof for its existence. 3.) An unsupported assumption shouldn’t be considered true until sufficient evidence pointing towards the probability of its validity is found but one cannot come to the definite conclusion that it cannot be true until conclusive evidence were found supporting that thesis. If you connect the premises above you arrive at agnosticism

Atheism

Atheism is not a religion. It’s the utter lack, or some may say, the utter rejection of one. Science and logic are the language that atheists speak. Supernaturalism is a language that they reject.

A theist would content himself with the easily digestible explanation that an unexplained and unexplainable entity is responsible for everything that he cannot understand Whereas most atheists wouldn’t be content with an answer that wasn’t derived and cannot be derived through scientific means.

An example would be the question of how the universe came into existence. Theists would be content with the easy and simplistic answer that a supernatural entity created everything. And that’s where all inquiries stop. For them, there is no need to ask where this supernatural entity came from or the process by which it created the universe. A common argument you’ll hear from a theist is “That’s like a pot questioning a potter” –funny that they’re comparing their intellectual capacity to a pot.

Atheists on the other hand would require a more scientific answer and if no definitive answer is available or if no answer is ever found, then it will simply remain an unanswered question. Their desire for an answer will not make them go the easy route by saying “because god made it so”

Similarities, differences and a critique of the agnostic’s position

One similarity between agnostics and atheists is that they both ask questions. They do not readily accept doctrine that was passed on to them. I’m not saying that All theists are gullible. It’s just that theists tend to compartmentalize. They may not be very easily persuaded in other areas but when it comes to their religion, they tend to be like sheep, going where their shepherd leads them

One major difference between agnostics and atheists is that the latter is usually more knowledgeable in science while the former is usually more philosophically inclined. The agnostic’s argument is valid to a point but that same argument could be used to support agnosticism towards more fantastic creatures like fairies and bogeymen or towards other gods like zeus, shiva or titan since after all their existence hasn’t been disproven and theoretically cannot be disproven. Truth of the matter is that not a single shred of evidence supports any of these entities and a truly objective thinker should be equally as “atheistic” or agnostic to all of them

Some agnostics are mystified by the complexity of life and the universe itself that’s why they still consider the possibility of creation. Most atheists are aware of how mystifying and “un-common-sensical” science itself can be and how introducing such a simplistic and unsupported answer would be comparable to spitting on the face of intellectual inquiry

I consider myself a strong atheist. I reject the concept of a supernatural, sentient, personal creator of the universe. For me the concept of a supernatural god is not only a redundant, unnecessary variable it also goes against proper reasoning. If proof were to be found supporting the existence of a sentient creator then I will be swayed. But as it is, I reject the concept the same way that most people reject the existence of gods aside from their own. All gods are completely unsupported by scientific evidence and I don’t really need to disprove anything since there is no need to disprove anything that hasn’t been proven in the first place.

For more of my arguments on the issue, check out my “on atheism” category

I was a pretty active pexer before. To people who are interested in debates about religion, you can visit the realm of thought or you can check out some of these threads where I participated. My username is jaywalker
 
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Update: (feb 3, 2008) when i wrote this, i didn't know what strong atheism meant. No I'm not actually a strong atheist. I was more of a "militant atheist" at the time


 

 

Posted by jaywalker_1982 at 09:53 AM in On atheism | 124 comments

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woobie (guest)

Comment posted on November 24th, 2007 at 05:25 AM
i blog reacted to this because my comment is soo loooonngggg....... view my wordy reaction.

http://evilwoobie.com/2007/11/24/on-death-afterlife-and-the-soul/
Comment posted on January 26th, 2007 at 06:23 AM
sure! sure! i just have to become familiar with the GUI first. i'm only used to forums, you know.
Comment posted on January 26th, 2007 at 06:27 AM
the tabulas GUI is pretty confusing. If you wanna reply to a particular comment just click on "reply to this comment".
Comment posted on January 26th, 2007 at 06:00 AM
aww... i missed the fun! :(
Comment posted on January 26th, 2007 at 06:11 AM
dude if you have the patience, please please feel free to logic bomb the people here
Comment posted on January 14th, 2007 at 04:45 PM
salamat salamat kapatid... sana may iba pang pede mag-evaluate kung ano talaga ang nangyari sa debate nato.
Comment posted on January 13th, 2007 at 07:27 AM
for me.. kryos was greater in defending his side than jaywalker..
Comment posted on January 10th, 2007 at 10:56 PM
Please miss jaywalker ibigay mo sakin ang paragraph na nagcommit ako "Appeal to Ignorance" at papatunayan ko na ikaw ang gumagawa nun. Cge maglabas ka ng isa. Ang dami kong sinabi "Appeal to Ignorance" lang sinagot mo? ano yun? patunayan mo muna na appeal to ignorance nga ang mga arguments ko.
Comment posted on January 10th, 2007 at 06:31 AM
This is my last comment in this entry. I have no intention of engaging in "palenke-debates". All the appeal to ignorance arguments that the flamer has raised have already been answered. If he didn't understand the answers then that's his problem. further comments amounting to the effect of harassment would be deleted @sinnersaint you seem to be a decent, properly bred person. I respect you if that's your opinion. Please don't tell me you're associated in anyway to the flamer in this entry. Please read all the comments here to understand how sick this guy is.

tiltedin2006 (guest)

Comment posted on January 14th, 2007 at 08:09 PM
Is there even such a think as "palengke debates"? To my knowledge, no such term exists. Coining a new term now, are you? Tsk, tsk, tsk. Sad really. It seems you're starting to grasp for straws... Definitely a sign that you're losing.
Comment posted on January 26th, 2007 at 10:05 AM
OMG!!! you're right. I searched webster and I couldn't find the word "palengke". Oh the shame!!! ...holy Whackamolly!! I used three exclamation points ...and the word "wackamolly". I must be really stupid now. WTFROTFLMAO pathetic creature
Comment posted on January 31st, 2007 at 01:04 AM
Whoa! the prodigal son is back!!! Sabi mo: "This is my last comment in this entry. I have no intention of engaging in "palenke-debates". Wala ka palang isang salita e. Kakatuwa naman, sakin di ka makasagot. Wag kang mag-alala, DI kita tatantanan.
Comment posted on January 10th, 2007 at 04:55 AM
when you, jaywalker, finally created a single blade of grass out of nothing, then i'll believe that there is no God.

Rank (guest)

Comment posted on May 17th, 2008 at 04:09 AM
OK, I am a latecomer here. But just in case someone else stumbles here after me here's a very simple retort: has anybody's god ever grown back an amputated limb of a believer?
Comment posted on January 7th, 2007 at 05:29 PM
whoa! an atheist saying Merry Xmas. jaywalker_1982 says: ey thanks merry XMas din:) 2006/12/25 at 5:37 pm WhataLoser!

ejay (guest)

Comment posted on January 9th, 2007 at 07:19 PM
christmas is not exclusively for christians, hijo. pag-isipan mo maige.
Comment posted on January 10th, 2007 at 05:00 PM
hmmmm. help me then please. i honestly dont understand. i know christmas is where people with different religions come together to celebrate the bday of santa clause pero di ko naisip na para din pala sa mga atheist to. (papalusot pa, tsk tsk) sinnerxsaint pangalan ni miss cute, wag mong tanggalin yung "x". (it could mean something). no one is asscociated with me. i stand alone. kaya lang naman naging palengke debate to kc kinuyug ako ng mga ka-tropa mo. pero mas may sense naman sinasabi ko kaysa sayo diba. we need a moderator. I'LL PROMISE I'LL Be GOOD, sagutin mo lang mga tanong ko. No more trash talk. I'' be a gentleman, of course not as gentle as you but still i'll try my best. ano? deal or no deal? Sa totoo lang hindi mo pa kc nasagot lahat ng tanong ko, alam mo yan. at marami pa akong tanong miss jaywalker.

spunkybabe_09 (guest)

Comment posted on January 11th, 2007 at 03:34 AM
"hmmmm. help me then please. i honestly dont understand. i know christmas is where people with different religions come together to celebrate the bday of santa clause pero di ko naisip na para din pala sa mga atheist to." sa 22o lng, mdaming tao nagcecelebr8 ng xmas. d kailangan mniwala sa dyos o ky hesus o ky santa claus pra mkpgsbe ng "merry xmas". =D tngnan mo japan, ung xmas pra sa knila prang dating season. LOLZ sa pgdiriwang ng berdei ni "santa clause" LOLZ
Comment posted on January 11th, 2007 at 04:51 PM
salamat naman natawa ka. :) "d kailangan mniwala sa dyos o ky hesus o ky santa claus pra mkpgsbe ng "merry xmas". physically possible, tama ka. nagawa nga ni jaywalker diba. pero kung ginagawa mo yan, niloloko mo sarili mo. it happens, but its wrong.

ejay (guest)

Comment posted on January 11th, 2007 at 02:56 AM
hijo, isipin mo ng maigeng-maige kung kailan ang birthday ni santa claus. pag naisip mo na, sabihin mo sa akin.
Comment posted on January 11th, 2007 at 05:04 PM
pinag-isipan ko maigi master.... at aking natanto na hindi ko alam... enlighten me master. ano ba implication kung malaman ko? how is it related to the topic?

ejay (guest)

Comment posted on January 12th, 2007 at 04:44 AM
lagi ka bang agresibo? sana maging friendly ka naman kahit konti. kasi mahihirapan kang makahanap ng girlfren niyan ha.
Comment posted on January 14th, 2007 at 04:38 PM
the answer is no. im a friendly. kita mo naman, very calm na ko ngayong 2007. i had a shot of horse tranquilizer kc. :) as always.. hindi mo na rin pinaliwanag yung side mo but still im being passive. i dont want this to end prematurely so hindi ko muna i-rereveal kung sino ka talaga. kahit ibahin mo pa username mo, kilala kita. jay...ooops

ejay (guest)

Comment posted on January 14th, 2007 at 10:10 PM
tol, hindi ako yong sinasabi mo!
Comment posted on January 14th, 2007 at 10:16 PM
utot mo. wala pa nga akong sinasabi e.

camille (guest)

Comment posted on December 27th, 2006 at 05:57 AM
i just want 2 ask.. what if, you died.. tapos nalaman mo na may diyos pala? anong gagawin mo??
Comment posted on December 27th, 2006 at 05:21 PM
ako na sasagot sayo kapatid dahil blogsite ko na yata to. theres really nothing for you to do. pero hindi ibig sabihin sa impyerno na ang destino mo. kung nabuhay ka at namatay ng di nakarig ng aral o mga bagay tungkol sa Diyos, cgurado ako papatawarin ka ng Diyos basta gumagawa ng ng mga bagay ng kautusan. kunwari: ang manok wala naman talagang kautusan sa kanila pero gumagawa sila ng mabuti, tulad ng pagtatanggol sa mga sisiw at pagpapakain. ganun din naman sa mga tao. Pero kung narinig mo at nabalitaan mo na may Diyos pero binalewala mo, naku po, ang Diyos narin ang bahala sayo kapatid. Sana dala ni jaywalker ang digicam nya pagnangyari yun ehehehehe.
Comment posted on December 21st, 2006 at 01:36 AM
is there noone else? geez. ive always wanted to say that.

Liz (guest)

Comment posted on December 1st, 2006 at 05:37 PM
this will be the last i say about this crazy topic. kryos called agnostics as people 'that don't know shit'. i.e., he is calling agnostics 'ignorant'. now, tiltedin2006, you said that if someone calls someone ignorant, he or she must first prove that she is not. jaywalker wrote a very long reply; kryos retaliated. now, i believe that his [kryos] reply shows his ignorance and total lack of understanding regarding the topic (i will not elaborate; just read jaywalker's, adam mordo's, and kilawinguwak's replies). hence, my insult. i regard it as something more educated than saying 'people that don't know shit'. kryos, amusingly, shut up after i told him to. but you did not. you had to argue about so-called errors regarding my grammar to prove that i am, in turn, ignorant. fine. you have insulted me, and kilawinguwak, too many times, defending your underdog who was in fact the first who traded an insult. i have not insulted you, gentleman. in fact, nobody has. you said that i should respect his opinion. but i believe that not all opinions were made to be respected. kryos's is not respectable. if mine is not too, okay. but you're really being very vehement about the whole thing. amusing. if you are offended by my insult, that's quite expected. but i was expecting kryos to be the one offended, and to feel strongly about it, not you. i don't mind your ad hominems; for all i care, they are just words on my screen. but i am throughly baffled by your behavior. you are a smart person. you know about fallacies, in fact. read kryos. count the fallacies. and yet you defend him. if he is a friend, that's quite understandable. but if my friends are wrong, i will not defend their mistakes. i will correct them. by the way, i said that ignorant people do not deserve intelligent conversation. i assume you are intelligent. however, your assertion as to me mistaking an argumentum ad hominem for an ad misericordiam is unfounded. i would not fain call you ignorant. but this is the end of our 'conversation', in the loosest sense of the word.

tiltedin2006 (guest)

Comment posted on January 14th, 2007 at 07:53 PM
Kyros was generalizing To Liz: I'm an agnostic myself, and you don't see me complaining, do you? When kyros described agnostics as 'people who don't know shit', he was making a generalization that argues for his cause and against agnosticism. He wasn't making a direct attack on another person - but you did. So it seems you're even more unenlightened than you accuse kyros to be. Don't flatter yourself by thinking 'kyros shut up after you told him to'. Contrary to what you believe, the world doesn't revolve around you, nor do people bow to your command. Oh, and btw, you use the word 'amusing' much too often. You might cause people to think you're a headcase of some sort... Ahhh... I believe I've proven my point. Arrogant people are often stupid.
Comment posted on December 4th, 2006 at 12:35 AM
ay sori mali pala, kala ko kc si jaywalker nagtatanggol sakin e. mali pala. eheheh salamats tiltedin2006. lam ko na, kasama karin sa mga minority na gustong gustong lumagay sa alanganin dahil dyan nasusubok ang tunay na talino hindi sa grammar ng mga coniong to. wag kang maawa sakin ehehehe
Comment posted on December 4th, 2006 at 12:21 AM
sensya na. pero nung sinabi ko na agnostic people dont know shit sana nakuha mo in context na tinutukoy ko na "walang kayong alam tungkol sa Diyos". And I believe that it is true. Based kc sa experience ko, nagiging agnostic ang isang tao dahil hindi na nila alam kung ano ba talaga ang totoo. Exaggerated I know, for that I apologize. Ngayon ko lang nakilala si jaywalker pero bago pa man ako komontra sa kanya e naiadd ko na sya sa friends list ko. anyway i do really think na ignorant ka kc dahil dito: Small minds talk about people. Average minds talks about Events. Great minds talk about Ideas. Eh mas importante yata sayo yung attitude ko kaysa sa mga ideas na sinabi ko. Labanan mo sana kapatid yung mga sinabi ko. Magalit kana basta sasabihin ko sayo ang totoo.

Adam Mordo (guest)

Comment posted on December 6th, 2006 at 09:26 AM
Very well, let's talk about your ideas shall we? Allow me to illustrate how your ideas took very little critical thinking. I seriously need to question the extent of this experience that you base your conclusion that "agnostic (and I must assume you mean atheists too.) people dont know shit" because "walang kayong alam tungkol sa Diyos". How far reaching is this supposed experience of yours Kyros? I spent four years of high school in the seminary with every intention of becoming a priest. I also had to go through 4 years of theology in college. I took my studies very seriously and I believe I know a bit more than the average joe when it comes to god and religion. And yet I still became an agnostic in junior high and an atheist by my sophomore year in college. I know several other people who went through a similar path to become either agnostic or atheist. This only shows how you simply jumped to a conclusion without thinking things through. And you have the arrogance to call us ignorant? At least our lack of belief involved discernment. Can you actually say as much about YOUR faith? If you could not even be critically minded about your sweeping statements, how could you have been critically analyzing when it came to YOUR belief?
Comment posted on December 6th, 2006 at 05:30 PM
e pre sensya na ha pero talagang wala kang logic e. kahit pa 10 taon kang nag-aral ng theology o 4 years ka sa semenaryo hindi ibig sabihin natuto ka diba. tama ba ako? kaya nga may board exams e dahil hindi lahat ng nag-aral ay natuto. at marami din akong alam na semenarista na ngayon ay agnostic na. pano nung tanungin ko tungkol sa Diyos panay kabobohan lang ang alam. Cge pag-nasagot mo to, maniniwala ako sayo na kahit papaano may alam ka. 1. Nasan ang Diyos nung hindi pa nya ginagawa ang Langit at Lupa? 2. May mga bagay ba na hindi kayang gawin ang Diyos o imposible para sa kanya. 3. Sa apocalypsis ano ang ibig sabihin ng 666. Sino ang tinutukoy dito at wag mo sanang sabihin si satanas to dahil tumutukoy to sa pangalan ng isang tao. 4. Omnipotent ba talaga ang Diyos? Omnipresent din ba talaga Sya? Omniscient kaya sya? 5. Dapat pa rin bang tuparin ang 10 commandments. 6. Nung sabihin ni Kristo na Sya at ang Diyos ay iisa ano kaya ibig sabihin nya dito? Alam mo uulanin ka lang ng mga tanong. At kahit di mo man tanggapin sa sarili mo ay bobo ka talaga. Saka bat ako lang ang tinitira mo e. si Jaywalker din naman ang nagsabi na mga bobo ang mga Agnostic e. Jaywalker: "Agnostics choose not to believe on the basis of ignorance, Atheists choose not to believe because there is no compelling reason for them to do so" alam mo ba kung may Diyos talaga o wala? Hindi diba? O edi BOBO ka. Tignan mo ha. Nagsimula ka sa paniniwala sa Diyos at dahil sa kabobohan mo naging Agnostic ka. Tapos atheist kana ngayon. Kung matalino ka talaga bat pa-iba-iba ka ng stand. Siguro bukas theist ka na ulet. Wag kang mag-inarte dyan, balat sibuyas. Patunayan mo na hindi ka Bobo. at yung mga arguments ko ang banatan mo, hindi yung kung pano ka nasaktan dahil tinawag kitang bopols. Naiinip nako. Walang ba talagang tatapat sakin.

ejay (guest)

Comment posted on December 7th, 2006 at 07:10 AM
can god create a stone which he cannot carry? were not talking about the gospel here dude. we're talking about the existence of god, and to cite the bible as proof is to already assume his existence. no deal. this is unbelieveable. kryos is unbelievable. unbelievably...self-confident.
Comment posted on December 10th, 2006 at 05:23 PM
"can god create a stone which he cannot carry?" please paki-elaborate naman nito kapatid. "were not talking about the gospel here dude. we're talking about the existence of god, and to cite the bible as proof is to already assume is existence. no deal." unang unang wala akong binanggit na gospel,hindi lahat ng nasa Bible kapatid ay gospel. and are we really talking about the existence of God? o ako lang yun? Ano kaba,Bible is a written evidence. It is my duty to prove its validity. Saka hindi lang naman Bible ang nag-iisang proof na binigay ko diba. Ano naman masasabi mo sa mga coincidences na coincidentally nagkasabaysabay? "this is unbelieveable. kryos is unbelievable. unbelievably...self-confident" Bat maniniwala kaba sa taong walang self confident, at least sa mga sinasabi nya?

liz (guest)

Comment posted on December 1st, 2006 at 12:06 AM
why, i did not expect a very long discourse about my use of 'i.e.' and the em dash. amusing. thanks to kilawinguwak. he knows that language is not rigid. this is a blog, so i did not feel the need to apply myself to the strict confines of formal writing, as tiltedin2006 seems to insist vehemently. also, i was expecting a thrashing, but not on the basis of imaginary wrongs based on my grammar. well, i guess that's the only part where anyone can attack me. but it is a weak attack at best. about me insulting kryos. that's true. i did insult him. so? i suppose you would like me to enumerate the premises which supported that insult. whoa. do i have to waste my time? i'm sorry, but while in fact i am for wasting time, i will take a break on this one. too laborious, if i have to dissect his arguments one by one. ignorant arguments, too. so go on. insult my grammar. or insult my insult. whichever suits you. like jaywalker said, i don't have to prove myself to anyone. especially to people i do not know. 'At least he posted an argument, w/c while may need restructuring, puts forth some very good points nonetheless.' i admire your faith in kryos, tiltedin2006. let's see you restructure his arguments. oh wait, i forgot something. yeah! i'm condescending. that is so true. very perceptive of you. now what do you want me to do about it? stop? if you say yes, good. if you say no, good. either way, i don't mind.

tiltedin2006 (guest)

Comment posted on December 1st, 2006 at 02:34 AM
I consider myself a gentleman, that's why I wanted to afford you with a morsel of dignity. But since based from your recent entry, it appears you do not deserve it, let me just say it directly as I originally intended. The reason you put an em dash and the word "pity" after your phrase regarding ad hominem is because you mistook ad hominem for Ad Misericordiam (Appeal to Pity). Let me just set you straight once and for all. Ad Misericordiam = Appeal to pity Ad Hominem = Argument against the person Now who's IGNORANT? IGNORANT...

liz (guest)

Comment posted on December 1st, 2006 at 01:44 PM
i am not doing this in the spirit of ad hominem---for pity. I am doing this for pity. i am not doing this in the spirit of ad hominem, but for pity. I am doing this for pity. don't talk to me about fallacies. and don't say i don't know what they are. i can't believe a smart person like you can misunderstand a simple statement such as that. the two statements above mean the same thing, and if you thought they didn't, that's not my fault. two other people obviously understood what i meant. oh, and what's all this talk about ad misericordiam? i'm not appealing for pity. i said i was doing something for pity---not asking for it. (ooops!) if you want to defend the underdog, please don't do it on the basis of my grammar. well. i guess that's all the basis you have, because that's all the basis i gave. i was mean. true. you are mean. true. now can you go back to defending your underdog's arguments, and prove he is not ignorant instead of proving that i am ignorant? makes much more sense. and i don't need hats.

tiltedin2006 (guest)

Comment posted on December 1st, 2006 at 09:01 PM
And another thing: The em dash is not a substitute for the word "but".

tiltedin2006 (guest)

Comment posted on December 1st, 2006 at 08:52 PM
Obviously you didn't read the rest of the posts. Either that or you really are as dim-witted as I thought you to be. Read them and you'll understand why I think you're an idiot. If you are claiming you in fact did not mistake ad honimen for ad misericordiam (w/c by the way, if you did, you totally misinterpreted the meaning of ad misericordiam just the same. Refer to my earlier posts), then my previous assertion still applies -- that the use of em dash is misplaced in your reply. But should I decide to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you know the proper use of an em dash, then it thus will lead me to the conclusion that you do not know what an ad hominem really is. Either way -- and pardon the language -- you're screwed. "the two statements above mean the same thing, and if you thought they didn't, that's not my fault." Obviously it is. If you only used the em dash properly, then you wouldn't be in this situation now, would you? But then again, I'm quite sure you know how to use an em dash... You really just misunderstood the meaning of ad hominem. "oh, and what's all this talk about ad misericordiam? i'm not appealing for pity. i said i was doing something for pity---not asking for it. (ooops!)" Shooting blanks again eh? Read the other posts as I said. Don't prove over and over again how unenlightened you are. "Please stop displaying your idiocy in public." "two other people obviously understood what i meant." Of course they would presume to understand you! They're your "friends" aren't they? "well. i guess that's all the basis you have, because that's all the basis i gave." So why don't you argue against the fine points of his arguments Liz (instead of only shooting out insults)? I promise, even if I am an agnostic like you, I'll willingly take up the opposing end just to prove my point to you. "and i don't need hats." Apparently you do. Your head has been traumatized enough. Don't worry; I'll give you a hard hat for Christmas.

tiltedin2006 (guest)

Comment posted on December 1st, 2006 at 08:58 PM
"the two statements above mean the same thing, and if you thought they didn't, that's not my fault." Obviously it is. Expoundedn below: Obviously it is your fault.

tiltedin2006 (guest)

Comment posted on December 1st, 2006 at 02:51 AM
Again, let me stress out (and this time I'm not going to hold back), "hats off to you for attempting to sound intelligent by using i.e. and the word ad hominem -- though it appears you do not even know the meaning of the word to begin with. Tsk, tsk, tsk...
Comment posted on December 1st, 2006 at 04:27 AM
dude lay off on the coffee :) Since when have “i.e” and "ad hominem" been symbols of intellectual status? They teach ad hominem in basic philosophy and informal writers use the word i.e a lot. As kilawinguwak said, this is a blog. This is not a term paper. We use informal language here. We use punctuations as we please …> sometimes we even invent our own punctuations. Who cares? How closely connected are you to kryos? Why are you so affected by this? Kryos invited the flame by his slightly less than diplomatic first comment. And even then I used indirect, sarcastic, light hearted ad hominems. You’re viciously attacking people here for no apparent reason. You insult people’s education, You insult people’s intelligence because of their (according to you) incorrect use of punctuations. …And what particular argument are you asserting here? The proper use of the dash? –pretty pathetic isn’t it (did I use the dash properly there) You can only go so far when insulting people When he called kryos ignorant, that can be considered an ad hominem as it could be construed as an attempt to discredit the person’s arguments on grounds of his credibility as a person. FEELING PITY FOR A PERSON IS NOT ARGUMENTUM AD MISERICORDIAM (APPEAL TO PITY.) Regardless of how you reply to this, I’m not gonna (notice I used gonna) engage you in a debate as I really am not into debating about the use of punctuations. I prefer to debate about subjects of substance Give me your thoughts on the topic and I will engage you. It’s in such topics that intelligence is really measured. This though is just not worth my time. Punctuations and the proper nomenclature of logical fallacies are for geniuses of trivia

tiltedin2006 (guest)

Comment posted on December 1st, 2006 at 04:46 AM
And yet you replied... Oh how fun this is Mr. jaywalker! Let me take you up on one of the finer points. "FEELING PITY FOR A PERSON IS NOT ARGUMENTUM AD MISERICORDIAM (APPEAL TO PITY.)" Precisely! And that's why I think she's an idiot. Again, I'll reiterate. It doesn't make sense to commit an "ad hominem -- for pity". Lest she mistook ad hominem for another term altogether (and badly understood its definition or use at that). The way I'm insulting people right now is no different from how she did it, yet I do not see you arguing for me? You're not being very objective then which is a shame since as "a man of science" I would expect you to be one. As for why I'm defending kyros, let's just say I prefer to root for underdogs...

tiltedin2006 (guest)

Comment posted on December 1st, 2006 at 05:11 AM
A little refresher course for you. This is what she said: "anyway, a word of advice to kryos: please don't say anything on the subject of atheism and agnosticism anymore. i.e., shut up. i am not saying this in the spirit of ad hominem---for pity. i am doing this for pity. your ignorance is offensive, so please stop displaying it in public." If you read the whole statement in its entire context, you'll see where she mistook ad hominem for ad misericordiam. Although this is an incomplete ad misericordiam, it can still be easily mistaken as such (which she did). And if she did, then it is unforgivable -- even though I used the words "can still be easily mistaken") -- since she accused someone of being ignorant, when in fact, she used a term that she did not completely understand.

tiltedin2006 (guest)

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